Comments on: A Visit to Alcor http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/ A revolution in time. Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: KBart http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-3771 KBart Sun, 13 Nov 2011 07:07:00 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-3771 I have to say, I’m deeply disappointed and disturbed after reading through your post and the comments – it’s just horrifying to see how bad things have gotten at Alcor. I’ve been interested in cryonics for quite a few years now and I was actually planning on signing up for neuropreservation with Alcor within the next few months. Considering the above, would you have any suggestions for a different, more reliable cryopreservation organization?

Thanks!

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By: Abelard Lindsey http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2270 Abelard Lindsey Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:03:53 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2270 Having shareholders meetings, issuing financial reports, and what not are a part of “acting” like a corporation, which is necessary for the legal and liability protections of a corporation. Not acting like a corporation can result in the removal of the corporate “shield” and exposing the principles to personal liability in the case of lawsuit or other legal action. If these issues are true, Bill and Saul could be exposing themselves to personal liability. I thought they were more careful than this.

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2269 admin Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:36:21 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2269 Hi, what is your specific question? — Mike Darwin

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2268 admin Sun, 19 Jun 2011 05:35:31 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2268 Mark, this is interesting, but not surprising. As of 11/19/2007 no annual financial reports or shareholders’ reports had been filed for 21st Century Medicine since at least 2001. As recently as a few months ago, I had two 21CM shareholders contact me asking if I had, or had received annual financial reports and/or shareholders’ reports for 21CM. These inquiries were made because these individuals, both 21CM shareholders, had not received such reports in over 10 years. My response was that I had not received any communications whatsoever from 21CM in terms of annual reports or shareholders reports, and had no knowledge of any shareholders’ meetings being held since the last one I attended in Ontario, CA sometime around 1999 or 2000.

Annual financial reports and (at least) annual shareholders meetings are legal requirements for maintaining corporate integrity in California, and most US states. 21CM is a California corporation, and as such it must allow shareholders to vote, hold an annual meeting of shareholders, permit a shareholder to inspect records after a written demand and provide an annual report to shareholders (http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/corporate_shareholders.php). I know of two shareholders who have requested some or all of the above, and did not received a response from 21CM, despite the passage of several years since the requests were made. I have not made such requests, so I cannot speak to whether these complaints of noncompliance are valid, or not.

It would be interesting to know if the various corporate entities associated with and/or funded by LEF have filed the required state and federal financial reports, or otherwise complied with state and federal laws that preserve their corporate shield and/or their tax exempt status — Mike Darwin

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By: gwern http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2265 gwern Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:12:47 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2265 > It is minimally engineered for load bearing, and this fine, and a damn good thing in earthquake country, where tilt-up concrete industrial building construction was first developed.

?

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By: Mark Plus http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2260 Mark Plus Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:37:19 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2260 The Timeship project has some tax problems:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/article/Conquering-death-in-Comfort-1427875.php

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By: Fundie http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2252 Fundie Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:51:36 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2252 Wonderful, Mike. I am glad you are sharing part 4 with the world. I have no doubt that we would all be delighted to see a detailed Alcor rebuttal.

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2249 admin Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:31:14 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2249 Yes. This has been practical for at least 20 years using one kind of technology or another. The economics and mechanics of on-site cryogenic refrigeration were first rigorously explored by Greg Fahy in the mid to late 1980s. Greg proposed using “cold finger” technology, essentially a small Joule-Thompson helium refrigerator to cool a single bigfoot dewar. Cold finger’s were developed primarily for applications in electron microscopy and experimental physics where it was uneconomical to use LN2, or where an arbitrary temperature was needed which did not correspond to the boiling point of any of the commonly available refrigerant cryogenic gases. Greg demonstrated mathematically that it was possible to use a cold finger to achieve zero boil off cryogenic refrigeration with a bigfoot. It would have been considerably more expensive than refrigeration with delivered LN2, but would have been useful as a stopgap in an emergency.

Since that time, there have been truly enormous advances in molecular sieving technology and cryogenic refrigeration. It is now possible to use polymer membranes to selectively remove nitrogen from the air and deliver it to a highly efficient low maintenance cryogenic refrigerator, or gas liquifier. This has eliminated the need for separation towers on small scale nitrogen liquification facilities, which were a major headache in terms of both maintenance and nitrogen gas purity. Advances in helium refrigerators have reduced maintenance to a series of simple, straightforward parts change outs, dramatically increased reliability, and virtually eliminated significant downtime. They have also reduced the cost of such systems dramatically.

Concurrent advances in solar power technology have made it feasible to provide sufficient kilowattage to reliably power such small-scale LN2 production plants in a place such as central or southern Arizona. Low or no sun days can be compensated for by storing LN2 liquified on sunny days (easily feasible in central Arizona). Thus, in the event of a ball-busting emergency, the procedure would be to convert all patients to neuro and place them in bigfoot dewars. At this time, 2 bigfoot dewars would be required for Alcor. You would, at a minimum, also need the following: a single 150 kW Solar Power Plant: $605,800, 2 x LN2 Plants: $144,000, Food, Water, Medical Supplies: $15,000, 2K gallons Diesel Fuel: $5,000, Miscellaneous: $10,000, Hardened Storage Facility: $1,367,640 (ECD-60), $ 290,300 (CAT-12) at a Total cost of ~ $2, 447,750. This rough estimate is based on specific cost and energy use estimates made by Eugen Leitl and I a couple of years ago and would allow 1-year grid independent survival of patients and staff (I’m sure costs have risen substantially since then). The diesel fuel is necessary as a buffer for any prolonged period without sunlight, and to supply HVAC and lighting for personnel during the night under some foreseeable conditions. The entire facility would be underground and would use off the shelf technology in this implementation. This was, in fact, to be Part 4 of my Failure Analysis Lectures, but alas, I didn’t finish it, since Parts 1-3 seemed to be of no interest and to have no practical effect. As you may now be guessing, this is where I am heading with the “The Latter Day Laputas” articles; so you now know the ending ;-0. BTW, the slides and some of the text for this proposal were submitted to Alcor awhile ago. My guess is that they haven’t stopped laughing yet, if they paid them any serious attention at all. — Mike Darwin

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By: Fundie http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2247 Fundie Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:23:25 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2247 grid-independent cryogenic refrigeration capability

As in on-site LN2 production?

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/05/29/a-visit-to-alcor/#comment-2245 admin Tue, 14 Jun 2011 18:45:00 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=652#comment-2245 In general, I agree with you. The risk of a major assault on any cryonics organization’s patients (or staff) at this time is very, very low; arguably vanishingly small. And again, given the other problems specified, it can be argued that such risk (and thus precautions against it) don’t even appear on the event horizon of “must do” action items at this time. However, it is also prudent to consider that the long term nature of cryonics operations means that risk is cumulative and thus that small risks at any given time will eventually likely result in disaster. So, a prudent thing to do is to address those risks in a rational and incremental way by planning for, and ultimately creating a super-hardened facility for patient storage. I’ve spent a fair bit of time specifying such a facility (starting in the mid-1980s) and there is no question, at least in my mind, that such a facility could have been put in place some years ago, with even a small fraction of the bequest money that Alcor has spent to no apparent benefit over the past 20 years. This will probably be the subject of a detailed article here on Chronosphere in the future.

The creation of such a hardened facility with grid-independent cryogenic refrigeration capability is really just common sense. For instance, most of the world’s largest corporations, and all of the world’s largest nation-states have super-hardened facilities for storage of their most critical data; tax records, financial records, intellectual property, etc. A quick look at the unexpected weather related flooding, tornado and seismic damage to infrastructure around the world (and especially in the US) shows the wisdom of such a strategy – even in the case of human enterprises that have comparatively short timescales of operation: i.e., on the order of a 100 to 200 years at most, for corporations.

Finally, as the Ted Williams case illustrates (and Dora Kent, as well), patient security can go from a negligible risk position to a very high risk position in a matter of days or weeks, with virtually no warning. All that would be necessary is for Alcor, CI, or any other cryonics organization to cryopreserve an individual who touches off intense hostility on the part of some of the public, or in some special interest group. For instance, while I was very dubious about the Ted Williams cryopreservation, it never even remotely occurred to me that it would launch a micro-movement of zealous nut-cases who would, in fact, threaten Alcor. Given the inherent ability of cryonics to provoke strong emotional reactions in some people if they perceive it at as threatening, it is not unreasonable to create a secure environment for the patients, and also for the staff (who are arguably more likely to be primary targets of vengeance or revenge). Of course such a threat does not obviate the need for RATIONAL planning and execution of security precautions in a cost effective way. — Mike Darwin

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