Comments on: The Armories of the Latter Day Laputas, Part 6 http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/12/the-armories-of-the-latter-day-laputas-part-6/ A revolution in time. Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/12/the-armories-of-the-latter-day-laputas-part-6/#comment-2531 admin Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:29:12 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=860#comment-2531 I actually know the answer to those questions (insofar as outsider can) and they have little to do with real estate in either case. Westminster Abbey is one of my favorite places. No, it cannot even begin to compare to the Vatican (another of my favorite places). The Vatican is gloriously glamorous and the gentle climate of the Roma region has been kind to it. And the Vatican had Michelangelo, Raphael, Bernini… which Westminster Abbey did not. By comparison, the Abbey is a provincial cathedral in a backwater – impressive as it is. It has now become far too expensive for me to go to the Abbey, except for Evensong services. And when you go for those, you are carefully herded to the choir stalls and cannot wander the darkened church at night. They charge admission to the Abbey, and it is now in the range of $35.00 US. The last time I was there, as the guest of one the clergy posted there (my impression is that about as many of the upper echelon Anglican clergy are gay, as are flight attendants, worldwide) I asked what the yearly upkeep was. Since I’m terrible with numbers I don’t recall the exact amount, but it was in the many millions of pound sterling! And that’s per year!

So, let that be a lesson to folks with an “edifice complex” in cryonics: big structures take BIG MONEY to maintain and they suck it up continuously and at a truly gargantuan rate. I feel quite certain that whatever its advertising benefits, the Abbey is not making many converts to the Church of England. It is an amazing place, but it probably attracts more deists, agnostics, atheists, the merely curious and the intellectuals of other faiths than anything else, primarily because it is the resting place for many of the world’s greatest heretics. It’s really ironic when you think of it, that Newton and Darwin are buried there, and that there is now a stained glass window commemorating Britain’s greatest faggot: Oscar Wilde.

So, one reason they charge is because they have to, not because they can. Other monies come from a grab bag of sources: some from church owned real estate, some from the UK government (the Church of England is the state religion in the UK), some from charitable giving, some from foundations and trusts dedicated to the preservation of history and architecture, and so on. And of course, there is what in the accounting world is called “cash or cash equivalents.” Both of these institutions have huge cash reserves. You may remember the big scandal some years back about the Vatican bank, Banco Ambrosiano, or more properly, “The Institute for Works of Religion” (IOR) the bank’s principal share-holder. Archbishop Paul Marcinkus, head of the IOR from 1971 to 1989, was indicted in Italy in 1982 as an accessory in the $3.5 billion collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, which was accused of laundering drug money for the Sicilian Mafia which used Propaganda Due (“P2″), a mobbed-up Masonic lodge as an intermediary. P2 and its “Worshipful Master,” Licio Gelli, were also involved in providing cash to right wing terror groups during the 1970s. Archbishop Marcinkus miraculously escaped trial using the shield of diplomatic immunity. He fled to the US, where he lived in the in the Sun City retirement community in southern Arizona until his death in 2006.

This scandal is still ongoing as of last year http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/world/europe/22vatican.html . Roberto Calvi, “God’s Banker,” was found hanging (dead) under Blackfriar’s bridge in London. The positioning of the body was in keeping with Masonic ritual for dealing with traitors; P2 was also known as the “Blackfriar’s.” The Calvi hit was almost certainly for embezzling money from Banco Ambrosiano that was owed to him and the Mafia. It is quite credibly claimed that the Mafia wanted to stop Calvi from disclosing that Banco Ambrosiano had been used for money laundering with the full knowledge and consent of the Church. In the Italian trial that resulted, it was stated that Calvi’s killing was arranged in Poland, which may seem very strange until you realize that a large chunk of the money that funded the Solidarity trade union movement was provided on instructions from Pope John Paul II. This left the Vatican in an itchy position, since THEY were likely getting money from right wing groups all over the world, and probably from the CIA and countless business interests that wanted to see Eastern Europe opened up to the West.

So, never forget that institutions that survive for hundreds of years do so because they SAVE. They relentlessly accumulate capital, and they use it strategically to further their interests. THAT sometimes makes for strange bedfellows. The Vatican, the Mafia, Solidarity, the CIA, Spanish bankers, Western nation-states, corporate scions… —Mike Darwin

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By: Mark Plus http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/12/the-armories-of-the-latter-day-laputas-part-6/#comment-2509 Mark Plus Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:33:51 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=860#comment-2509 >How do long-lived institutions such as the Vatican and Westminster Abbey invest their money? What about some of the long-lived banks in Switzerland and Isle of Man? Some of them have been around for 200 years. How do they invest their money?

I imagine they derive financial stability from owning real estate free and clear.

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By: Mark Plus http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/12/the-armories-of-the-latter-day-laputas-part-6/#comment-2507 Mark Plus Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:10:06 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=860#comment-2507 Mike, what do you make of the movie in the works about Bob Nelson?

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/paul-rudd-boards-errol-morris-210432

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By: Mark Plus http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/12/the-armories-of-the-latter-day-laputas-part-6/#comment-2465 Mark Plus Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:43:39 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=860#comment-2465 I’ve pointed out a similar problem with the idea of using Liechtenstein as a holding country for cryonics reanimation trusts. Look at how the borders in central and eastern Europe have shifted in the past 20 years. Nothing would stop a neighboring country or empire in a future century from absorbing Liechtenstein, voiding its laws about trusts and confiscating cryonicists’ assets.

Of course that assumes that Liechtenstein’s government would act in good faith in the first place. Apparently some cryonicist managed to piss off the government there and he had to get a court decision to force it to accept reanimation trusts. Yeah, smart move to introduce yourself to a county with a population about the size of Prescott’s, where everyone in the ruling elite knows each other, and many of them probably show up at the same family gatherings.

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By: Abelard Lindsey http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/12/the-armories-of-the-latter-day-laputas-part-6/#comment-2463 Abelard Lindsey Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:22:12 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=860#comment-2463 I think one key to longevity for cryonics organizations is recognition by the leadership that this is a multi-century endevour. That reanimation, if possible, will not occur until the 22nd or even 23rd century. Will the U.S. exist as a currently recognizable political entity then? Perhaps the southwest will become a part of Republica del Norte by 2080. Or maybe the American republic will turn into the American Empire (just like Rome) and will absorb much of Europe and Latin America (differential birthrates, you see). How well these political entities and the people that comprise them be responsive to cryonics and radical life extension? Maybe we find ourselves in Shanghai, Singapore, or even a space colony out in the belt 100 years from now.

I think a lot of it is sound financial management. How do long-lived institutions such as the Vatican and Westminster Abbey invest their money? What about some of the long-lived banks in Switzerland and Isle of Man? Some of them have been around for 200 years. How do they invest their money?

As you may or may not know, all of the “developed” country’s governments have debt problems. How will this work itself out over the next 50 years or so? How do we preserve and grow our money through such a mess?

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