Comments on: Status Report: 28 July, 2011 http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/ A revolution in time. Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-3093 admin Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:40:37 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-3093 What a hoot! The boil-off rate inside the dewar holding Jerry Leaf must be up in the triple digits! He loathed her to an extent just short of homicide for her treasonous actions during the Vietnam war. Without a doubt that’s why she has remained on my radar these many years, and why when I saw a copy of her latest autobiography in the dustbin, I took it home and read it. After reading it, I think I figured out he second reason he hated her so much; she’s a castrating bitch. Ahh technology, medical and otherwise: if you want to Jane Fonda’s father, Henry, at the same age, you can do in this clip where he is presented the AFI Lifetime Achievement Award: http://www.clicker.com/web/american-film-institute/henry-fonda-accepts-the-afi-life-achievement-award-1778549/ — Mike Darwin

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By: Abelard Lindsey http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-3087 Abelard Lindsey Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:54:04 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-3087 More on Jane Fonda for you, Mike:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2022304/Jane-Fonda-73-displays-age-defying-figure-sheer-dress.html

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2852 admin Sat, 30 Jul 2011 05:18:02 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2852 Sure Luke, I appreciate that, but semantics isn’t just quibbling over words, and in this case it is REALLY not about quibbling over words. I move in strange circles these days and I get to see and do some really unbelievable things. About 6 months ago, I had the chance to run an experiment on 7 people who were undergoing polygraph examination for employment. The examiner was kind enough to do a test for me at the end of formal session. This test consisted of having the subjects listen to a string of words whilst the examiner recorded their GSR, HR, and BP. The words were: duck, action, cart, plastic, child, death, working, driving, being, animal, dead, table, television, life, snake, ocean. Each word was enunciated clearly, the examiner paused till any reaction was complete, and then moved onto the next word. Two words in that series evoked anxiety-related changes in GSR in all 7 subjects, and BP and HR increases in 4 of the 7, one other word evoked GSR changes in 3 of the seven subjects and BP and HR changes in 2 of the three. Want to guess what the words were?

The negative response evoking words were dead, death and snake. My suspicion is that “freezing” doesn’t exactly make people feel all warm and fuzzy, either. So, as soon as you utter the words “freezing dead people” you have evoked a visceral and strongly negative reaction. If you have ever been in a conversation with someone who is also halfway listening on the phone and they are suddenly told by the caller that their kid was just hit and killed by a car, or that that their house just burned down, well, a mini-version of that is pretty much what happens when you say you freeze dead people. You just shot yourself in the foot and they will have instantly “turned off and tuned you out.” Those words are not only repulsive to many people, they don’t make sense to them and they evoke images of meat in the freezer – something you do to dead things you are going to eat. It’s awful.

In the 1970s the acute reaction was just terrible. I was at a party in a young architect’s swanky home on Twin Peaks, in SF in 1979, and he asked me what I was doing in SF. I told him: “Well, I freeze dead people and I just finished two back-to-back cases in LA and, since I was out here in California, well no way was I going to miss seeing San Francisco.” He excused himself immediately and went to the loo. He didn’t come back. Turns out, my remarks made him nauseated and he went to the loo and passed out. Since he was (unbeknownst to me) also a diabetic, his friends thought he might be in a diabetic coma. There was a huge to-do, and when it emerged that it was ME who was responsible, well, let’s just say the rest of the evening was very strained, and needless to say, the subject of cryonics did not come up again.

We can’t let their language derail us; no way, no how. What’s more, we are doing a public service to medicine and the community at large by educating people on the non-binary, “gray” nature of death. Critical care medicine is confronting this problem in a huge way, and what’s more, a lot of people are clued in to that fact. Are people in a persistent vegetative state (PVS) dead, or alive, or somewhere in between? Is it OK to take organs from a person whose heart has stopped (“irreversibly’) but who is not “brain dead”? People need to come to grips with these gray-state issues, because completely apart from cryonics, they are going to increasingly confront them in medicine and in the law.

And it is not hard to communicate action in the face of uncertainty – it’s easy to do by way of analogy. If someone buys a stock they are making a (hopefully) informed bet that it is going to increase in value. Until it does or doesn’t, nobody knows if their course of action was profitable, or not. HOWEVER, if that same person is buying a diversified portfolio of shares, then even if he loses on some stocks, it is possible to say that he is behaving rationally, prudently and in just about the only way you can if you want a high probability of return on your investment with a minimum of risk.

How bad do you want to get rich and what are your circumstances? If your biggest dream in life is to be a millionaire and you have an IQ of 80, and some days you find it confusing to tie your shoes, then the only way you can reasonably expect to be a millionaire is to buy a lottery ticket at least once in your lifetime. That’s not irrational, it is perfectly sane and reasonable, given that you REALLY want to be rich and you REALLY aren’t going to get that way by investing, or by hard work. We’re in the same position. Don’t try to “sell” cryonics to people. Instead, tell them the truth and let them make an informed decision. The best way to do that, at least for me, is to explain why and how much I love being alive and that from my perspective, dying destroys the most important thing to me, and it also will destroy the next most important things to me: my friends, my family, my culture and my civilization. THAT’S what makes cryonics worth pursuing and rational. Once you get that far, you can point out that the crappy odds are not set in stone. They can change based on the actions of individuals. No Wright Brothers = no flight for awhile longer, anyway. No Edison = no phonograph; and there was no phonograph for a long, long time, even though it is an easy bit of technology. WE CAN CHANGE THE ODDS. Yes, they are shitty right now. Yes, we may well not make it. However, we would be cowards and losers not to try, given how much we value our lives. If they don’t feel that way, well, that’s their loss.

So, yes, language matters. Please, use the proper words. — Mike Darwin

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By: Fundie http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2851 Fundie Sat, 30 Jul 2011 01:53:55 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2851 I just say “legally dead” when I mean “legally dead.” I don’t feel like the idea of cryonics can get much traction with most people if you don’t start with the idea that “legally dead” doesn’t mean necessarily “dead” as a first principle. Everybody I know seems to grasp the fact that people who would have been “legally dead” a few years ago are now recognized to be revivable, in fact many people I know seem fascinated by that fact. I don’t think it’s really too big for them to move from there to the idea that “legally dead” is sometimes mistaken and that medical technology is gradually pushing back that frontier.

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By: Luke Parrish http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2832 Luke Parrish Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:02:41 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2832 Good point Mike, but we’re debating terminology rather than fact aren’t we? Robert Ettinger’s legal status is dead. Doctors call him dead. Neither of those things means he can’t live again by any physical law.

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2830 admin Fri, 29 Jul 2011 21:06:56 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2830 I have quite a number of posts in queue dealing with practical “limited” or “incremental” rejuvenation technologies – things like dietary and pharmacological interventions for long-term weight-loss and weight control that work (which is rejuvenation if you are clinically obese), lifestyle and pharmacological techniques for slowing and reversing the effects of aging and depression on the brain, and of course, molecules that can restore libido and sexual performance (mostly in males) – at least temporarily. There will be lots of illustrations with the latter posts. And frankly, I could use some help there, because I am gay and I mostly don’t even see women. If you ask me to think of a woman I know casually, what will come to mind is a montage of impressions and thoughts that are either not visual, or only visual in as fragmented and usually negative way – maybe blue hair, or clown makeup. It takes me multiple exposures, or some deeper connection before I can even see a woman. This is not the case with men. I have the same problem with finding my way around – zero memory for landscape sequences. So, if there are any folks out there who want to vet my illustrations or illustrate the articles in some cases, let me know. Looking at straight porn is also not my idea of a good time – though it isn’t any worse than searching for other illustrations here.

Finally, the articles dealing with sex will use common, everyday language. Fuck is a perfectly acceptable word on the BBC after 2100 hours, and I intent to use it and other words like it – to pretty much the same standard as the British do in their HIV education materials:http://www.gmfa.org.uk/londonservices/booklets-and-postcards/pdfs/semen-sex-hiv.pdf, http://www.tht.org.uk/informationresources/publications/gaymengerneralinformation/bottomlinethe124.pdf. Semen Sex and HIV, the booklet at the first URL is produced by the Camden National Health Service. Imagine something like that being published by the US NIH!!?? — Mike Darwin

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By: admin http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2828 admin Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:31:21 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2828 Things that Galileo fortunately did not say:

“At times I wonder if it is better to concede that that sun moves around the earth, while defending the notion that there is always the possibility that the earth revolves around the sun. Some people get resentful when you try to change their view of the cosmos. If they don’t have telescopes and cannot look and see for themselves, or they cannot do the calculations that show that the wandering stars must indeed move around the sun, then they will become angry. The notion that the earth revolves around the sun is about as weird and foreign as was the notion that the earth is a sphere, and not a plane.”

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By: Mark F. http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2826 Mark F. Fri, 29 Jul 2011 20:19:35 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2826 I’d like to also congratulate Mike on doing a great job with this blog. The (tasteful) nude photos he put up in another posting were certainly not a negative either. ;-)

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By: Fundie http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2822 Fundie Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:23:59 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2822 I guess I had an advantage in database class years ago when it was drilled into me that boolean logic could have three values: “true,” “false,” and “unknown.” Cryonics patients are all firmly in “unknown” for me, which is very comfortable for me and fits perfectly into my thinking. But a lot of people don’t do well with “unknown.”

The obvious conclusion to me is that force should be used to coerce everybody into taking database classes until they get it, but there may still be a flaw in my reasoning. :)

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By: Luke Parrish http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/07/28/status-report-28-july-2011/#comment-2814 Luke Parrish Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:54:55 +0000 http://chronopause.com/?p=1042#comment-2814 At times I wonder if it is better to concede that cryonicists are “dead” while defending the notion that there can be a reversible form of death. Some people get resentful when you try to change their terminology for them. If they don’t get cryonics to begin with, the notion that Robert Ettinger is not dead is about as weird and foreign as aliens landing.

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